I forgot to mention that Jen and I beat this a few days ago. Roughtly 60 hours of gameplay, which is not to bad considering we didn't have to use a cheat guide at all to play the game. Probably one of the best RPG's I've played, and I've played a lot of them for years now. Some contrite concepts in there and it does get a little hokey at times, but hands down 100% quality stuff here with ideals that are deeper than your standard bubblegum "nobody dies" crap they put out. Which brings me to another point, it seems that more and more games are being made complex simply to be complex. Take FFX-2 for example, I had to literally follow a guide specifically the entire way just to get the full experience, otherwise I missed almost 90% of the game because I was bypassing options I didn't know I had. Sure every game has hidden bonus's, but they are supposed to be bonus's, not crucial parts of the story line. Kind of like how the whole GTA thing is just getting to damn huge. GTA:SA was just way to large honestly...there was no benefit in learning the town or area beyond a few shortcuts. It had a lot of flash and pomp, but no real depth. Lot's of games are like that....they rely to heavily on puzzles and tricks that almost can't be figured out by normal people without use of "guides". We didn't have to use a guide to play Tales of Syphonia, the path's were clear usually. Zelda: The wind waker wasn't like that....damn hard to figure out. Taking a penny, and hiding it under a barrel in a town on the farthest reaches of the continent does not a game make.